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Fellow TSN members,
Here are the records of recent interviews of the TSN and WTA with Robert Lewis of the Center for Inquiry, an umbrella group which contains "CFI-OnCampus" - CFI's campus network, the Council for Secular Humanism (CSH), the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), and the Commission for Scientific Medicine and Mental Health (CSMMH), which publish "Free Inquiry" magazine, "Skeptical Inquirer" magazine, and the last one publishes both "The Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine" and "The Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice." In addition, CFI has several centers througout the world, supports various academics, broadcasts alternative views in the media from its Hollywood center, contains a library to store Humanist/Skeptic/Freethought-related books and publications, and supports certain international Humanist development projects.
www.centerforinquiry.net
I just recently introduced Kip Werking, the winner of this year's WTA Haldane Award (for best undergrad paper) to a member of CFI who I worked under as an intern last summer.
Whatever coverage we get, I think our answers expressed our concerns, perspective, and intentions well.
Ben
--- "Hughes, James J." <james.hughes@trincoll.edu>
wrote:
Hi Robert -
> >How many groups are involved?
> >I suspect the number is low. Do you think college students
> > do not think about things like 'life extension"?
I think the most attractive thing about transhumanism for college students is the same thing that attracts them to humanism: outrage at dumb arguments that masquerade as wisdom. They are more open to taking things to their logical conclusions, even if that takes them out of the sphere of "common sense".
As to the specific things they get attracted to, they are often thinking about their careers and future, so life extension is as much on their minds as others, as well as the technical and social aspects and what their own role might be.
> >I also got the feeling that one must be educated and involved to be active in this movement. Do you think undergraduate college students
> >would be able to accurately represent the movement based on this?
Like any ideological movement, we disproportionately attract the best and brightest. But the basic ideas - life/health/smart good! - aren't too difficult to grasp.
> >Do you have any events planned at different universities, designed
> >especially for college students?
We are working on coalitional activities with SSA, but Ben can tell you more.
------------------------
James Hughes Ph.D.
Executive Director
World Transhumanist Association
transhumanism.org
Box 128, Willington CT 06279 USA
(office) 860-297-2376
director@transhumanism.org
-------Thu, 12 Aug 2004 -- "Ben Hyink" <ben_hyink9@yahoo.com>
Hi Robert,
Sorry for not responding to the message sooner, I
travelled back to Chicago via a Greyhound but missed
my bus at one of the stops and lost my luggage near
the border, so I've been preoccupied with getting
Greyhound to issue a tracking notice for it over the
next few weeks.
Regarding the collaboration with the SSA, I had met a
few SSA leaders previously at the 2002 conference that
was held in Chicago. At that time I talked to a few of
them about the transhumanist movement and they told me
they would look into it. I set up the framework for a
Transhumanist Student Network under the WTA last year
after speaking about the idea at TransVision 03.
Though I was distracted by classes and the
establishment of a Humanist-Transhumanist club at
Northwestern U. (in addition to developing my own
ideas for possible cognitive extension networks and
establishing a Chicago Transhumanist chapter) over the
past year, I think the TSN now has a critical mass of
interested students to establish an actual group
network over the next two or three years. Students are
currently trying to start groups at Georgia Tech and
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in New York.
We have recently agreed to collaboration with the SSA
in which people affiliated with each group speak at
each other's conferences, endorse each other as groups
of interest to members (and speakers to member
groups), and generally recognize each other as groups
with shared aspects of philosophy, motivation, and
outlook. Jende Huang also volunteered to write the
TSN's start-up kit.
We believe that both the Humanist and Transhumanist
community will benefit from ongoing exchange and that
the large overlap of interests will attract people to
both movements and help people in each movement
develop perspectives that anticipate and address
significant paradigm shifts, while remaining
responsive to the needs and concerns of everyone in
society, and fostering the kind of open dialog and
reasoned consideration that is needed to successfully
navigate promises and perils democratically.
As far as student interests are concerned, I can't speak for most students, but I do know that it has been easier to keep members of a student club active and interested when half the meetings are devoted to emerging technologies and issues that could have a major impact on students' lives. Some people are most attracted to the technical challenges of bringing about transformative technologies, while others are most interested in delving into socio-cultural effects of the changes, either as a matter of public policy or the arts. Without the spice of THsm, the character of the first club I started was more of a "village atheist" oasis, where people only came to kvetch - and at the time I promoted that focus. The compassionate humanistic aspect of humanism usually was never a big
draw for campus clubs because most big-hearted social activist types immediately pledge themselves to well-established social service clubs, though I think people are very much attracted to the compassionate emphasis of Transhumanism. Dr. Hughes put it well when
he said that people get the basic notions. I doubt I could interest my peers in a whole meeting on voluntary euthanasia, but we will probably devote a meeting this next school year to the elimination of
biological aging and scenarios that might play out with indefinite life extension (incluing substrate transitions, etc.).
TSN plans to send information about the WTA and itself
to groups in the SSA listing within the next year. We
would like existing humanist groups to consider
affiliation with the TSN for speakers and materials,
and TSN start-up groups to strongly consider
affiliating with the SSA. While I know the
CFI-OnCampus is very protective of its member contact
lists, I hope that over time we will find other ways
of collaborating with you, such as Austin Dacey's
presentation at TV'03 and George Dvosrky's speech at
the recent Science & Reason conference. The offer of
CFI to fly speakers out to campuses free of change
will be especially attractive to our start-up groups
that may have no school sponsorship (such as the NU
group for the next two years).
-----Fri, 13 Aug 2004 "Robert Lewis" <>
Thank you!, I'll definately use your comments.
Could you give me your 'official' title?
-cheers,
-Robert Lewis
------Fri, 13 Aug 2004 "Ben Hyink" <ben_hyink9@yahoo.com>
Certainly!
TSN Chair (Transhumanist Student Network)
Please consider mentioning that I also interned at CFI
last summer, and interviewed Steve Mann for the Free
Inquiry issue on Transhumanist topics. It was a
wonderful experience.
Best,
Ben Hyink
-------Sun, 15 Aug 2004 "Robert Lewis" <>
Re: Please use this revised paragraph - RE: CFI interview
Thanks, coinicidentally I just thought of another question for you:
*Do you think it in the best interest of transhumanists to delve into
religion and supernatural beliefs, as suggested by some in the symposium the day before the conference?
*Why has there been a sparked interest in religion for some
transhumanists?
*Do they think it necessary to keep their movement growing?
*Do you think most transhumanist believers are just nominally religious?
*What about your TSN group ... do you talk about this topic?
*Where do you think your group stands on this issue?
-You have been a lot of help. No rush on the answers to these
questions.
-Cheers,
-Robert Lewis
------Sun, 15 Aug 2004 "Ben Hyink" <ben_hyink9@yahoo.com>
1st question:
> > Do you think it in the best interest of
> > transhumanists to delve into religion and
> > supernatural beliefs, as suggested by some in the
> > symposium the day before the conference?
Most of us never undertake a rigorous and critical examination of core beliefs, often due to a dread of social isolation, nihilism, or otherworldly retribution. Yet, we all have a stake in the future, and emerging technologies will influence everyone. I sense the general consensus is that in order to create a positive future in which opportunities to improve our capacities are accepted and available, potentially dangerous technologies are safely regulated, and the dream of significantly raising the condition of bulk of humanity without devastating the biosphere can be realized, forward-thinking Humanists will need to accept people coming from humanistic religious perspectives under our common Transhumanist banner. The practical necessity of maintaining an open collaborative culture is balanced with the need to distinguish ourselves from groups that do not share in basic humanistic values.
2nd:
> > Why has there been a sparked interest in religion
> > for some transhumanists?
Aside from the pragmatic imperative to better understand most of the public (Pascal Boyer's_Religion Explained_ was explored in depth during the conference), the naturalistic wonder that can arise from discussion of radically transformative proposals and novel theoretical speculations has prompted some to adopt religious metaphors. Einstein often described the universe in pantheistic terms, and now some associate indefinite life spans with the term "immortality." Oxford philosopher and WTA Chair Nick Bostrom has made an interesting argument via prospective induction that the reality we experience might be a kind of ancestor simulation [1] run by sophisticated descendents of the human species. U. of Toronto philosopher Mark Walker has developed an argument for theists as to why God should want us to become more "God-like" in this world through our own technological efforts, but Humanists have always supported the empowerment of humanity. Presaging cryonics by two hundred years, the humanistic Deist Benjamin Franklin whimsically dreamed of being preserved with friends in a "cask of Madeira" wine until science could restore them to health.[2] In his speech at the TransVision '04 conference "Answering the 'Why?' Question," Bostrom provided an excellent response to the challenge provided by CFI's Austin Dacey in the June/July issue of Free Inquiry, and some compelling reasons for anyone with humanistic values to lend Transhumanists their support.
[1]
www.simulation-argument.com
[2]
www.wired.com/wired/archi...biotime.html
3rd:
> > Do they think it necessary to keep their movement
> > growing?
Like the leaders of the Secular Humanist community, we find inspiration in Margaret Mead's principle of change. But in order for small group of thoughtful, committed people to help usher in advanced technologies in a way that is safe and will gradually empower everyone, we need to find ways to connect with more people. While it provides the most congenial pool of supporters, the entire secular community alone could not fill that need. A responsive movement will make room at the table for everyone who shares some basic premises and engage in ongoing dialog with those who agree with portions of the movement's credo.
4th:
> > Do you think most transhumanist believers are just
> > nominally religious?
There appear to be a fair number of Buddhists in our movement who identify just as strongly with Secular Humanism, and variants of [philosophical] Buddhism can be quite compatible - could this inspire a Secular Humanist outreach campaign at Buddhist temples? Representing the hazy boundary of our movement is research engineer Tihamer Toth-Fejel, who believes there is space for Catholic Transhumanists. While I welcome his generally supportive position, I find his justification for ascribing personhood to fertilized eggs entirely inadequate and threatening. Therapeutic stem cell cloning has nearly universal support from the Transhumanist community for its potential to alleviate an array of human afflictions. Wholly outside the movement are fundamentalists and cult groups like the Raelians and Scientologists.
5th:
> > What about your TSN group ... do you talk about this
> > topic?
My NU group "New Humanists" has several secular Jewish Humanists, a Deist, and a secular Buddhist. One topic that has risen in our predominantly male group is the relative scarcity of freethinking women. All members attracted to women agreed that while we found freethinkers as such most attractive, we would happily date someone who was mildly religious. What was really crucial was the capacity for creative, intelligent exchange.
6th:
> > Where do you think your group stands on this issue?
I think I covered this question pretty well in my answer to the first query.
-----Mon, 16 Aug 2004 "Hughes, James J." <james.hughes@trincoll.edu>
Excellent answers. Sounds like Lewis was pretty skeptical of our effort.
J.
-----Mon, 16 Aug 2004 "Hughes, James J." <james.hughes@trincoll.edu>
> * Do you think it would be well-advised to post my final
> answers to the interview on the wta-campus in a week or two? [me]
Sure - I think your sensitivity to the humanist sensibilities really helps frame the religious transhumanism issue well.
J.
Here are the records of recent interviews of the TSN and WTA with Robert Lewis of the Center for Inquiry, an umbrella group which contains "CFI-OnCampus" - CFI's campus network, the Council for Secular Humanism (CSH), the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), and the Commission for Scientific Medicine and Mental Health (CSMMH), which publish "Free Inquiry" magazine, "Skeptical Inquirer" magazine, and the last one publishes both "The Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine" and "The Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice." In addition, CFI has several centers througout the world, supports various academics, broadcasts alternative views in the media from its Hollywood center, contains a library to store Humanist/Skeptic/Freethought-related books and publications, and supports certain international Humanist development projects.
www.centerforinquiry.net
I just recently introduced Kip Werking, the winner of this year's WTA Haldane Award (for best undergrad paper) to a member of CFI who I worked under as an intern last summer.
Whatever coverage we get, I think our answers expressed our concerns, perspective, and intentions well.
Ben
--- "Hughes, James J." <james.hughes@trincoll.edu>
wrote:
Hi Robert -
> >How many groups are involved?
> >I suspect the number is low. Do you think college students
> > do not think about things like 'life extension"?
I think the most attractive thing about transhumanism for college students is the same thing that attracts them to humanism: outrage at dumb arguments that masquerade as wisdom. They are more open to taking things to their logical conclusions, even if that takes them out of the sphere of "common sense".
As to the specific things they get attracted to, they are often thinking about their careers and future, so life extension is as much on their minds as others, as well as the technical and social aspects and what their own role might be.
> >I also got the feeling that one must be educated and involved to be active in this movement. Do you think undergraduate college students
> >would be able to accurately represent the movement based on this?
Like any ideological movement, we disproportionately attract the best and brightest. But the basic ideas - life/health/smart good! - aren't too difficult to grasp.
> >Do you have any events planned at different universities, designed
> >especially for college students?
We are working on coalitional activities with SSA, but Ben can tell you more.
------------------------
James Hughes Ph.D.
Executive Director
World Transhumanist Association
transhumanism.org
Box 128, Willington CT 06279 USA
(office) 860-297-2376
director@transhumanism.org
-------Thu, 12 Aug 2004 -- "Ben Hyink" <ben_hyink9@yahoo.com>
Hi Robert,
Sorry for not responding to the message sooner, I
travelled back to Chicago via a Greyhound but missed
my bus at one of the stops and lost my luggage near
the border, so I've been preoccupied with getting
Greyhound to issue a tracking notice for it over the
next few weeks.
Regarding the collaboration with the SSA, I had met a
few SSA leaders previously at the 2002 conference that
was held in Chicago. At that time I talked to a few of
them about the transhumanist movement and they told me
they would look into it. I set up the framework for a
Transhumanist Student Network under the WTA last year
after speaking about the idea at TransVision 03.
Though I was distracted by classes and the
establishment of a Humanist-Transhumanist club at
Northwestern U. (in addition to developing my own
ideas for possible cognitive extension networks and
establishing a Chicago Transhumanist chapter) over the
past year, I think the TSN now has a critical mass of
interested students to establish an actual group
network over the next two or three years. Students are
currently trying to start groups at Georgia Tech and
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in New York.
We have recently agreed to collaboration with the SSA
in which people affiliated with each group speak at
each other's conferences, endorse each other as groups
of interest to members (and speakers to member
groups), and generally recognize each other as groups
with shared aspects of philosophy, motivation, and
outlook. Jende Huang also volunteered to write the
TSN's start-up kit.
We believe that both the Humanist and Transhumanist
community will benefit from ongoing exchange and that
the large overlap of interests will attract people to
both movements and help people in each movement
develop perspectives that anticipate and address
significant paradigm shifts, while remaining
responsive to the needs and concerns of everyone in
society, and fostering the kind of open dialog and
reasoned consideration that is needed to successfully
navigate promises and perils democratically.
As far as student interests are concerned, I can't speak for most students, but I do know that it has been easier to keep members of a student club active and interested when half the meetings are devoted to emerging technologies and issues that could have a major impact on students' lives. Some people are most attracted to the technical challenges of bringing about transformative technologies, while others are most interested in delving into socio-cultural effects of the changes, either as a matter of public policy or the arts. Without the spice of THsm, the character of the first club I started was more of a "village atheist" oasis, where people only came to kvetch - and at the time I promoted that focus. The compassionate humanistic aspect of humanism usually was never a big
draw for campus clubs because most big-hearted social activist types immediately pledge themselves to well-established social service clubs, though I think people are very much attracted to the compassionate emphasis of Transhumanism. Dr. Hughes put it well when
he said that people get the basic notions. I doubt I could interest my peers in a whole meeting on voluntary euthanasia, but we will probably devote a meeting this next school year to the elimination of
biological aging and scenarios that might play out with indefinite life extension (incluing substrate transitions, etc.).
TSN plans to send information about the WTA and itself
to groups in the SSA listing within the next year. We
would like existing humanist groups to consider
affiliation with the TSN for speakers and materials,
and TSN start-up groups to strongly consider
affiliating with the SSA. While I know the
CFI-OnCampus is very protective of its member contact
lists, I hope that over time we will find other ways
of collaborating with you, such as Austin Dacey's
presentation at TV'03 and George Dvosrky's speech at
the recent Science & Reason conference. The offer of
CFI to fly speakers out to campuses free of change
will be especially attractive to our start-up groups
that may have no school sponsorship (such as the NU
group for the next two years).
-----Fri, 13 Aug 2004 "Robert Lewis" <>
Thank you!, I'll definately use your comments.
Could you give me your 'official' title?
-cheers,
-Robert Lewis
------Fri, 13 Aug 2004 "Ben Hyink" <ben_hyink9@yahoo.com>
Certainly!
TSN Chair (Transhumanist Student Network)
Please consider mentioning that I also interned at CFI
last summer, and interviewed Steve Mann for the Free
Inquiry issue on Transhumanist topics. It was a
wonderful experience.
Best,
Ben Hyink
-------Sun, 15 Aug 2004 "Robert Lewis" <>
Re: Please use this revised paragraph - RE: CFI interview
Thanks, coinicidentally I just thought of another question for you:
*Do you think it in the best interest of transhumanists to delve into
religion and supernatural beliefs, as suggested by some in the symposium the day before the conference?
*Why has there been a sparked interest in religion for some
transhumanists?
*Do they think it necessary to keep their movement growing?
*Do you think most transhumanist believers are just nominally religious?
*What about your TSN group ... do you talk about this topic?
*Where do you think your group stands on this issue?
-You have been a lot of help. No rush on the answers to these
questions.
-Cheers,
-Robert Lewis
------Sun, 15 Aug 2004 "Ben Hyink" <ben_hyink9@yahoo.com>
1st question:
> > Do you think it in the best interest of
> > transhumanists to delve into religion and
> > supernatural beliefs, as suggested by some in the
> > symposium the day before the conference?
Most of us never undertake a rigorous and critical examination of core beliefs, often due to a dread of social isolation, nihilism, or otherworldly retribution. Yet, we all have a stake in the future, and emerging technologies will influence everyone. I sense the general consensus is that in order to create a positive future in which opportunities to improve our capacities are accepted and available, potentially dangerous technologies are safely regulated, and the dream of significantly raising the condition of bulk of humanity without devastating the biosphere can be realized, forward-thinking Humanists will need to accept people coming from humanistic religious perspectives under our common Transhumanist banner. The practical necessity of maintaining an open collaborative culture is balanced with the need to distinguish ourselves from groups that do not share in basic humanistic values.
2nd:
> > Why has there been a sparked interest in religion
> > for some transhumanists?
Aside from the pragmatic imperative to better understand most of the public (Pascal Boyer's_Religion Explained_ was explored in depth during the conference), the naturalistic wonder that can arise from discussion of radically transformative proposals and novel theoretical speculations has prompted some to adopt religious metaphors. Einstein often described the universe in pantheistic terms, and now some associate indefinite life spans with the term "immortality." Oxford philosopher and WTA Chair Nick Bostrom has made an interesting argument via prospective induction that the reality we experience might be a kind of ancestor simulation [1] run by sophisticated descendents of the human species. U. of Toronto philosopher Mark Walker has developed an argument for theists as to why God should want us to become more "God-like" in this world through our own technological efforts, but Humanists have always supported the empowerment of humanity. Presaging cryonics by two hundred years, the humanistic Deist Benjamin Franklin whimsically dreamed of being preserved with friends in a "cask of Madeira" wine until science could restore them to health.[2] In his speech at the TransVision '04 conference "Answering the 'Why?' Question," Bostrom provided an excellent response to the challenge provided by CFI's Austin Dacey in the June/July issue of Free Inquiry, and some compelling reasons for anyone with humanistic values to lend Transhumanists their support.
[1]
www.simulation-argument.com
[2]
www.wired.com/wired/archi...biotime.html
3rd:
> > Do they think it necessary to keep their movement
> > growing?
Like the leaders of the Secular Humanist community, we find inspiration in Margaret Mead's principle of change. But in order for small group of thoughtful, committed people to help usher in advanced technologies in a way that is safe and will gradually empower everyone, we need to find ways to connect with more people. While it provides the most congenial pool of supporters, the entire secular community alone could not fill that need. A responsive movement will make room at the table for everyone who shares some basic premises and engage in ongoing dialog with those who agree with portions of the movement's credo.
4th:
> > Do you think most transhumanist believers are just
> > nominally religious?
There appear to be a fair number of Buddhists in our movement who identify just as strongly with Secular Humanism, and variants of [philosophical] Buddhism can be quite compatible - could this inspire a Secular Humanist outreach campaign at Buddhist temples? Representing the hazy boundary of our movement is research engineer Tihamer Toth-Fejel, who believes there is space for Catholic Transhumanists. While I welcome his generally supportive position, I find his justification for ascribing personhood to fertilized eggs entirely inadequate and threatening. Therapeutic stem cell cloning has nearly universal support from the Transhumanist community for its potential to alleviate an array of human afflictions. Wholly outside the movement are fundamentalists and cult groups like the Raelians and Scientologists.
5th:
> > What about your TSN group ... do you talk about this
> > topic?
My NU group "New Humanists" has several secular Jewish Humanists, a Deist, and a secular Buddhist. One topic that has risen in our predominantly male group is the relative scarcity of freethinking women. All members attracted to women agreed that while we found freethinkers as such most attractive, we would happily date someone who was mildly religious. What was really crucial was the capacity for creative, intelligent exchange.
6th:
> > Where do you think your group stands on this issue?
I think I covered this question pretty well in my answer to the first query.
-----Mon, 16 Aug 2004 "Hughes, James J." <james.hughes@trincoll.edu>
Excellent answers. Sounds like Lewis was pretty skeptical of our effort.
J.
-----Mon, 16 Aug 2004 "Hughes, James J." <james.hughes@trincoll.edu>
> * Do you think it would be well-advised to post my final
> answers to the interview on the wta-campus in a week or two? [me]
Sure - I think your sensitivity to the humanist sensibilities really helps frame the religious transhumanism issue well.
J.
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